Hemsky on Jagr

[dashingsilverfox]

“He’s not like he was, but he can still be a difference maker,” he said, adding his impact could be felt in any number of ways. “He’s a superstar. Just having him on the team is good for everybody. That’s why I think it would be good. He’s a guy who can do 70 points. We don’t have guys who can do 70 points.”

http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/myoilers/2010/02/25/13026981.html

Fucking pathetic.

[Bryanbryoil]

Can do? WTF Ales?

[I am the Liquor]

He does make a point. I wonder what Horcoff thinks? The guy just desperately wants some help here. Cant say I blame him.

[dashingsilverfox]

He does make a point. I wonder what Horcoff thinks? The guy just desperately wants some help here. Cant say I blame him.

I guess my issue is why can't Hemsky produce 70 points?

And there are currently about 60 players in the league on pace to produce more than 70 points. And, the Oilers, a cap team, don't have ONE.

[mrtoetoe]

I guess my issue is why can't Hemsky produce 70 points?

Hemsky is a 70 point guy though...

Why the rest of the team is garbage isn't a Hemsky problem I don't feel.

[Replacement]

“He’s not like he was, but he can still be a difference maker,” he said, adding his impact could be felt in any number of ways. “He’s a superstar. Just having him on the team is good for everybody. That’s why I think it would be good. He’s a guy who can do 70 points. We don’t have guys who can do 70 points.”

http://www.edmontonsun.com/sports/myoilers/2010/02/25/13026981.html

Fucking pathetic.

What pisses me off consistently is how this fucking space cadet figures he's Mark Messier of something continually suggesting additions to the team. He wants to be a bloody player GM. Hemsky's sense of self worth here is right off the charts in comparison to what he actually is.

[theoil]

What pisses me off consistently is how this fucking space cadet figures he's Mark Messier of something continually suggesting additions to the team. He wants to be a bloody player GM. Hemsky's sense of self worth here is right off the charts in comparison to what he actually is.

I'm pretty sure he is just answering questions that he is asked. And at this point anybody that has produced for this team has the right to question management imo.

[Beaker]

I guess my issue is why can't Hemsky produce 70 points?

And there are currently about 60 players in the league on pace to produce more than 70 points. And, the Oilers, a cap team, don't have ONE.

Well playing 22 games doesn't help Hemsky get 70 pts. He's done it twice in his career.

I see this more as Hemsky saying... "C'mon I need more help" then saying... "I can't get 70 points." He's talking about his teammates, and looking at it, he's not wrong.

[I am the Liquor]

I'm pretty sure he is just answering questions that he is asked. And at this point anybody that has produced for this team has the right to question management imo.

I agree. I have been on Hemsky before about on ice attitude but he has been pretty good about the off ice stuff considering the cesspool he finds himself in.

[dashingsilverfox]

Hemsky is a 70 point guy though...

Why the rest of the team is garbage isn't a Hemsky problem I don't feel.

Hemsky is almost 27 years old and has exceeded 70 points twice in his career.

His average point production is significantly lower.

While I have some sympathy for his plea for better linemates, asking the team to bring in a 147 year old player to score 70 points while scores of better, younger, cheaper players perform that amazing feat is just pathetic.

[Replacement]

I'm pretty sure he is just answering questions that he is asked. And at this point anybody that has produced for this team has the right to question management imo.

This guy questions a whole lot more than his relative contribution warrants.

The main point however being that the clueless fuck doesn't have any answers worth paying any attention to.

He's like fucking peter pan musing on what Czech to cash next and which coach he might like fired..

I'd kick his ass. For free.

[dashingsilverfox]

Well playing 22 games doesn't help Hemsky get 70 pts. He's done it twice in his career.

I see this more as Hemsky saying... "C'mon I need more help" then saying... "I can't get 70 points." He's talking about his teammates, and looking at it, he's not wrong.

No, he's not but suggesting Jagr is the answer is just dumb.

[Replacement]

No, he's not but suggesting Jagr is the answer is just dumb.

After jagr got his once in the Olympics he was next to invisible. Pathetic efforts in the last two Czech games. He has the stamina to play a few games at this level and then just lies down.

[HFPM]

Yikes. Some of you guys are a little hard on him.

[mrtoetoe]

Hemsky is almost 27 years old and has exceeded 70 points twice in his career.

His average point production is significantly lower.

While I have some sympathy for his plea for better linemates, asking the team to bring in a 147 year old player to score 70 points while scores of better, younger, cheaper players perform that amazing feat is just pathetic.

Yeah, I'm just saying every single season since the lockout, he's been on pace for at least 70 points.

But agreed, Jagr isn't the answer. Well, it is for Lowe...but that's it.

Narnia: But Tamablelienii is in charge, NOT LOWE GOD YOU FANS SUCK.

[Bryanbryoil]

What the fuck is Penner when he's healthy? He was outperforming Hemsky or at least out playing him earlier in the year. Hemsky is in his prime right now and if we could move him in the right package I'd really look at doing it.

[mrtoetoe]

What the fuck is Penner when he's healthy? He was outperforming Hemsky or at least out playing him earlier in the year. Hemsky is in his prime right now and if we could move him in the right package I'd really look at doing it.

Has Penner been unhealthy the last couple months?

[dashingsilverfox]

Yikes. Some of you guys are a little hard on him.

Perhaps it's warranted?

[Replacement]

What the fuck is Penner when he's healthy? He was outperforming Hemsky or at least out playing him earlier in the year. Hemsky is in his prime right now and if we could move him in the right package I'd really look at doing it.

I really think Hemsky's play leaves him very vulnerable to injury and he doesn't seem to learn. I don't think I've seen a player get drilled into the boards head first as much as Hemsky. Well actually I have, Reddox.

Watching these two is like watching Kenny get Killed. Everybody see's the plot except for them.

[I am the Liquor]

Has Penner been unhealthy the last couple months?

He's got Icouldgiveafuckitis. I hear its highly contagious.

[I am the Liquor]

I really think Hemsky's play leaves him very vulnerable to injury and he doesn't seem to learn. I don't think I've seen a player get drilled into the boards head first as much as Hemsky. Well actually I have, Reddox.

Watching these two is like watching Kenny get Killed.

I attribute some of that to management thinking we can get by without a bonafide enforcer. Hemsky gets drilled and everyone skates to the bench. Rinse and repeat.

[dashingsilverfox]

I really think Hemsky's play leaves him very vulnerable to injury and he doesn't seem to learn. I don't think I've seen a player get drilled into the boards head first as much as Hemsky. Well actually I have, Reddox.

Watching these two is like watching Kenny get Killed.

^^^^^THIS^^^^.

I called it two seasons ago and I will wager Hemsky never plays a full season again.

He plays a very high risk style of game and, if he doesn't, he's ineffective.

[dashingsilverfox]

I attribute some of that to management thinking we can get by without a bonafide enforcer. Hemsky gets drilled and everyone skates to the bench. Rinse and repeat.

Well, 6'01" 210 lb Horcoff has been right there to protect him.

What's the problem?

[Replacement]

^^^^^THIS^^^^.

I called it two seasons ago and I will wager Hemsky never plays a full season again.

He plays a very high risk style of game and, if he doesn't, he's ineffective.

Same.

Remember this thread?

Can I link it here?:owl:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=441319


This was so fucking predictable for so long. On the actual shot that ended his season this year Hemsky KNOWS its coming but its real important to put his head on a platter again anyway.

[theoil]

This guy questions a whole lot more than his relative contribution warrants.

The main point however being that the clueless fuck doesn't have any answers worth paying any attention to.

He's like fucking peter pan musing on what Czech to cash next and which coach he might like fired..

I'd kick his ass. For free.

I'm thinking you haven't thought this through. Middle aged guy goes up to 27 year old professional hockey player and offers to kick his butt? I doubt it lasts 45 seconds, Mario.

[dashingsilverfox]

Same.

Remember this thread?

Can I link it here?:owl:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=441319

Yes I do and the beauty of being here my friend is you can link to anything you like and we can actually have an intelligent discussion about it.

What a concept and very good insight in the thread.

[theoil]

No, he's not but suggesting Jagr is the answer is just dumb.

Reporter: "How would you feel about having jagr play with you next year for the oilers?"

Hemsky: "That old fuck is useless now. He was my childhood hero but now he is a piece of shit."

C'mon, DSF, you know the media sets these things up and Hemsky is no better or worse than most. He just says the expected thing.

[Bryanbryoil]

Has Penner been unhealthy the last couple months?

Yeah like Hemsky was late in '06-07.

He's got Icouldgiveafuckitis. I hear its highly contagious.

Yup, Penner, Souray, the list goes on and on.

I'm thinking you haven't thought this through. Middle aged guy goes up to 27 year old professional hockey player and offers to kick his butt? I doubt it lasts 45 seconds, Mario.

It's Hemsky man, not Jacques, Smid, or Stortini :danson: Besides, Mario rides a bicycle man, a fucking bicycle! :cycle_it:

[Replacement]

I'm thinking you haven't thought this through. Middle aged guy goes up to 27 year old professional hockey player and offers to kick his butt? I doubt it lasts 45 seconds, Mario.

It seems I'm talking figuratively as an internet hack.

[Bryanbryoil]

Reporter: "How would you feel about having jagr play with you next year for the oilers?"

Hemsky: "That old fuck is useless now. He was my childhood hero but now he is a piece of shit."

C'mon, DSF, you know the media sets these things up and Hemsky is no better or worse than most. He just says the expected thing.

Then why not just say that I'd welcome him on my team? Why the whole "70 point can do" shit?

[Bryanbryoil]

It seems I'm talking figuratively as an internet hack.

I'm thinking you'd rather go after Penner :onrait:

[theoil]

Yeah like Hemsky was late in '06-07.



Yup, Penner, Souray, the list goes on and on.



It's Hemsky man, not Jacques, Smid, or Stortini :danson: Besides, Mario rides a bicycle man, a fucking bicycle! :cycle_it:

Yeah, that'll help against a 27 year old in shape.

[Replacement]

I'm thinking you'd rather go after Penner :onrait:

Not a chance buddy. :superghey:

[I am the Liquor]

Yeah, that'll help against a 27 year old in shape.

Old man strength.

http://blog.nj.com/entertainment_impact_tv/2009/01/large_GranTorino.JPG

[theoil]

Then why not just say that I'd welcome him on my team? Why the whole "70 point can do" shit?

Maybe because he is an icon in his homeland and saying nice things about him is the right thing to do? I really see this thread as a 'there is nothing to talk about right now because there is no hockey so let's bitch a little' thread.

Nothing to see here but a columnist with nothing to write about filling a couple of column inches.

[dashingsilverfox]

Reporter: "How would you feel about having jagr play with you next year for the oilers?"

Hemsky: "That old fuck is useless now. He was my childhood hero but now he is a piece of shit."

C'mon, DSF, you know the media sets these things up and Hemsky is no better or worse than most. He just says the expected thing.

I don't disagree but Hemsky does have a choice about how he responds.

"We don't have anyone who can score 70 points", while honest, hardly addresses what the team actually needs.

I guess hoping for a more insightful answer is a mug's game.

[theoil]

I guess hoping for a more insightful answer is a mug's game.

From Hemsky I think you are right. I know it is frustrating but the truth is probably that there is nothing anybody can say in the current situation that isn't just really fucking irritating.

It's that kind of season.

[theoil]

Old man strength.

http://blog.nj.com/entertainment_impact_tv/2009/01/large_GranTorino.JPG

Hey, Replacement is just a young buck compared to me. He could kick my ass in no time at all.

[dashingsilverfox]

From Hemsky I think you are right. I know it is frustrating but the truth is probably that there is nothing anybody can say in the current situation that isn't just really fucking irritating.

It's that kind of season.

Generation?

[theoil]

Generation?

Shit. You're right again.

[Giant Moo]

Yikes. Some of you guys are a little hard on him.

That's an understatement. Yikes, let's light the torches for the best player the Oilers have had for years just because he's telling the truth about the sad state of the franchise. Christ.

[dashingsilverfox]

That's an understatement. Yikes, let's light the torches for the best player the Oilers have had for years just because he's telling the truth about the sad state of the franchise. Christ.

Well, as long as we don't count on him for solutions to the problem he has identified, perhaps we'll be okay.

Jagr? Give me a fucking break.

[Giant Moo]

Maybe because he is an icon in his homeland and saying nice things about him is the right thing to do? I really see this thread as a 'there is nothing to talk about right now because there is no hockey so let's bitch a little' thread.

Nothing to see here but a columnist with nothing to write about filling a couple of column inches.

Exactly, and I was talking about it before when I was worried that this place as going to turn into bizarro boreds -- all complaining about everything all the time.

By all means, let's shit all over the only guy on the team who can produce any kind of points.

That's what the HorCult does.

[Replacement]

Maybe because he is an icon in his homeland and saying nice things about him is the right thing to do? I really see this thread as a 'there is nothing to talk about right now because there is no hockey so let's bitch a little' thread.

Nothing to see here but a columnist with nothing to write about filling a couple of column inches.


Hemskys lost any presumed right to make this kind of comment. That he does regularly shows that he things himself a valued star.

-Going back to Smyth years Hemsky repeatedly refusing to take direction from a veteran Captain Canada and would rather do it his way because Hemsky knows best. Woulldn't surprise me with how much the disconnect had to do with the team not getting Smyth signed.

-12 games left last year and he calls out the coaching staff with his bitching about being expected to play both ends of the ice. Hemsky sulks down the stretch, team misses playoffs.

-Hemsky front centre in recommending a deal to obtain Kotalik and then proceeds do to fuck all with him down the stretch.

-Then has the audacity to suggest Kotalik should get resigned here. (what kind of nightmare would that be and why would we?) seriously.

-20 games into this season Hemsky is singled out by Quinn and Renney for not taking direction seriously, not taking practice seriously, and they tear a huge strip off him.

perhaps not curiously the sulking Hemsky quickly:

-22Games into this season and Kenny finally gets killed which was inevitable what with his penchant for getting drilled head first into the boards.

Really I honestly think Hemsky bailed on the season when it was clearly going south.

Hes a pos.

[Giant Moo]

Well, as long as we don't count on him for solutions to the problem he has identified, perhaps we'll be okay.

Jagr? Give me a fucking break.

Okay, I agree with you that Jagr is not Jesus and isn't going to really do much for this franchise. But as theoil pointed out, he's being interviewed about the Czech's most beloved player, and he's not about to start crapping all over Jagr, is he?

I feel badly for Hemsky since he's never had anything except boat anchors for linemates in his prime years. Like Dr. Evil, I think he's looking for someone to toss him a frickin' bone.

[dashingsilverfox]

Okay, I agree with you that Jagr is not Jesus and isn't going to really do much for this franchise. But as theoil pointed out, he's being interviewed about the Czech's most beloved player, and he's not about to start crapping all over Jagr, is he?

I feel badly for Hemsky since he's never had anything except boat anchors for linemates in his prime years. Like Dr. Evil, I think he's looking for someone to toss him a frickin' bone.

Truce then.

I hope Hemsky finds a happy home in a couple of years.

[Replacement]

That's an understatement. Yikes, let's light the torches for the best player the Oilers have had for years just because he's telling the truth about the sad state of the franchise. Christ.

That Hemsky is the "best player for years" tells you what a gongshow this org is.

I can't think of ten teams in the league where Hemsky would be thought of as the best player.

Smyth was the best player. Not even close.

[dashingsilverfox]

That Hemsky is the "best player for years" tells you what a gongshow this org is.

I can't think of ten teams in the league where Hemsky would be thought of as the best player.

Smyth was the best player. Not even close.

Yes he was.

Losing him was Lowe's greatest mistake.

[mrtoetoe]

That Hemsky is the "best player for years" tells you what a gongshow this org is.

I can't think of ten teams in the league where Hemsky would be thought of as the best player.

Smyth was the best player. Not even close.

Well, at least it seems fitting that our best player at least carries one attribute our last best player has...the ability to never play a full season.

[Giant Moo]

That Hemsky is the "best player for years" tells you what a gongshow this org is.

I can't think of ten teams in the league where Hemsky would be thought of as the best player.

Smyth was the best player. Not even close.

I can't think of 10 teams either. But I'm not so sure that's not a product of the cards he was dealt as much as how good of a player he is. It's hard to polish a turd like Horcoff into someone capable of helping you score points.

As for Smyth being the best player, I think that depended game to game. At least with Smyth he had someone who could play a complementary role and produce points. All Horcoff can produce is minuses and zeros.

[dashingsilverfox]

Well, at least it seems fitting that our best player at least carries one attribute our last best player has...the ability to never play a full season.

Now, if he could just get that 36 goal thing figured out.:blackrod:

[theoil]

Hemskys lost any presumed right to make this kind of comment. That he does regularly shows that he things himself a valued star.

-Going back to Smyth years Hemsky repeatedly refusing to take direction from a veteran Captain Canada and would rather do it his way because Hemsky knows best. Woulldn't surprise me with how much the disconnect had to do with the team not getting Smyth signed.

-12 games left last year and he calls out the coaching staff with his bitching about being expected to play both ends of the ice. Hemsky sulks down the stretch, team misses playoffs.

-Hemsky front centre in recommending a deal to obtain Kotalik and then proceeds do to fuck all with him down the stretch.

-Then has the audacity to suggest Kotalik should get resigned here. (what kind of nightmare would that be and why would we?) seriously.

-20 games into this season Hemsky is singled out by Quinn and Renney for not taking direction seriously, not taking practice seriously, and they tear a huge strip off him.

perhaps not curiously the sulking Hemsky quickly:

-22Games into this season and Kenny finally gets killed which was inevitable what with his penchant for getting drilled head first into the boards.

Really I honestly think Hemsky bailed on the season when it was clearly going south.

Hes a pos.

Man oh man. Smyth is gone. Time to move on there. It isn't Hemsky's fault that Captain Canada got hypnotized by Gaptooth when he was here into thinking he was more valuable than he was and it isn't Hemsky's fault that this organization makes more bad decisions than mediocre ones.

Hemsky has not been able to put this team on his back and carry them. That hardly makes him the author of this team's troubles.

[dashingsilverfox]

I can't think of 10 teams either. But I'm not so sure that's not a product of the cards he was dealt as much as how good of a player he is. It's hard to polish a turd like Horcoff into someone capable of helping you score points.

As for Smyth being the best player, I think that depended game to game. At least with Smyth he had someone who could play a complementary role and produce points. All Horcoff can produce is minuses and zeros.

Thing is, Smyth shows up to play EVERY night.

[Giant Moo]

Man oh man. Smyth is gone. Time to move on there. It isn't Hemsky's fault that Captain Canada got hypnotized by Gaptooth when he was here into thinking he was more valuable than he was and it isn't Hemsky's fault that this organization makes more bad decisions than mediocre ones.

Hemsky has not been able to put this team on his back and carry them. That hardly makes him the author of this team's troubles.

I think Hemsky kicked Replacement's dog a few years ago. And naturally, Smyth nursed it back to life using only his golden locks.

[Giant Moo]

Thing is, Smyth shows up to play EVERY night.

So does Liam Reddox.

[Replacement]

Well, at least it seems fitting that our best player at least carries one attribute our last best player has...the ability to never play a full season.

Few players stand in front of the net taking shots their whole career play a full season. Smyth is taking his pain and shots in scoring position in the paint where goals happen.
Hemsky's favorite injury play is feeling he must beat Regehr to the boards for the puck with knowing results..

It doesn't even make sense. You don't win the puck bleeding and drooling on the Ice.

[theoil]

That Hemsky is the "best player for years" tells you what a gongshow this org is.

I can't think of ten teams in the league where Hemsky would be thought of as the best player.

Smyth was the best player. Not even close.

Also not Hemsky's fault. Hemsky wanted to stay here and Smyth didn't.

[dashingsilverfox]

Man oh man. Smyth is gone. Time to move on there. It isn't Hemsky's fault that Captain Canada got hypnotized by Gaptooth when he was here into thinking he was more valuable than he was and it isn't Hemsky's fault that this organization makes more bad decisions than mediocre ones.

Hemsky has not been able to put this team on his back and carry them. That hardly makes him the author of this team's troubles.

David, there is a truism, Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way.

Where does Hemsky fit in your opinion?

[mrtoetoe]

Now, if he could just get that 36 goal thing figured out.:blackrod:

Hey, I like Smyth.

The problem is the same though with having Hemsky or Smyth as your best player.

[theoil]

Thing is, Smyth shows up to play EVERY night.

Not when he was injured. And he also gets injured a lot because of the way he plays. Hemsky learned from Smyth.

[dashingsilverfox]

So does Liam Reddox.

And one of them is an NHL player and one isn't.

Your point?

[theoil]

David, there is a truism, Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way.

Where does Hemsky fit in your opinion?

He follows and will soon get out of the way. Management had a chance to have him lead and they picked Moreau. That was a great fucking day for the franchise.

[Replacement]

I think Hemsky kicked Replacement's dog a few years ago. And naturally, Smyth nursed it back to life using only his golden locks.

I think something like that must have happened.

But yeah its reactive and I'll stop.

Its just that when you watched years of great players with a pretty great attitude its hard to see someone like Hemsky that has accomplished diddly squat do and say the things he does.

I'm just used to some players with stellar attitudes and dedication. Doug Weight over Hemsky and day of the week. Its sad post cap that this is a worse club than it was precap.

[theoil]

Yes he was.

Losing him was Lowe's greatest mistake.

I believe you just identified why it has been a generation if that is the biggest mistake. No cards in the hand for a long time and nobody seems to know how to get some.

[Replacement]

Man oh man. Smyth is gone. Time to move on there. It isn't Hemsky's fault that Captain Canada got hypnotized by Gaptooth when he was here into thinking he was more valuable than he was and it isn't Hemsky's fault that this organization makes more bad decisions than mediocre ones.

Hemsky has not been able to put this team on his back and carry them. That hardly makes him the author of this team's troubles.

Move on to what? When this org has a player to move on to I'll gladly do it.

I've already tried with Gagner, Sully, hell last year I got desperate and even had a Pouliot hope a thon.

If this club wasn't offering up garbage on a platter there wouldn't be so much reminiscing about better players and years.

[theoil]

Move on to what? When this org has a player to move on to I'll gladly do it.

I've already tried with Gagner, Sully, hell last year I got desperate and even had a Pouliot hope a thon.

If this club wasn't offering up garbage on a platter there wouldn't be so much reminiscing about better players and years.

Sad but true. Sad but true.

[dashingsilverfox]

He follows and will soon get out of the way. Management had a chance to have him lead and they picked Moreau. That was a great fucking day for the franchise.

A good assessment my friend.

[theoil]

A good assessment my friend.

It was the day I gave up on MacT and not because I didn't think he knew how to line match.

[mrtoetoe]

It was the day I gave up on MacT and not because I didn't think he knew how to line match.

When your roster is filled with pimply teens it's hard to do anything well.

I sound like hottoddy now.

"Phoenix is a sustainable market if they win Cups for 10 years straight"

[Replacement]

Also not Hemsky's fault. Hemsky wanted to stay here and Smyth didn't.

Think about that a bit. You're a veteran sought after player in the midst of 36goal seasons.
The young kid you're playing with just got a long term deal for 4.25M/yr

Meanwhile you've been breaking your balls for the club for a dozen years and making 3.5M.

The Clueless fuck, K Lowe, makes an August offer of 4M/ over several years with that the ONLY standing offer on the table for most of a year untill deadline time.

As a player of course you're pissed because the team CHOSE to entirely disregard you. Not to mention embarrass you. The team was basically saying to Smyth they valued Hemsky much more. I could also mention the team moved quickly on Staios, Pisani, and Moreau contracts because that was important... while simultaneously leaving Smyth in limbo.

Oh well.

[theoil]

Think about that a bit. You're a veteran sought after player in the midst of 36goal seasons.
The young kid you're playing with just got a long term deal for 4.25M/yr

Meanwhile you've been breaking your balls for the club for a dozen years and making 3.5M.

The Clueless fuck, K Lowe, makes an August offer of 4M/ over several years with that the ONLY standing offer on the table for most of a year untill deadline time.

As a player of course you're pissed because the team CHOSE to entirely disregard you. Not to mention embarrass you. The team was basically saying to Smyth they valued Hemsky more.

Oh well.

I still think Smyth hung around with Pronger too much the year he was here and that is where the trouble began. No proof. Just a hunch.

[Replacement]

I still think Smyth hung around with Pronger too much the year he was here and that is where the trouble began. No proof. Just a hunch.

Didn't need to be Pronger. Horc, Smith, Brewer, Weight, Guerin, were all tight with NHLPA.

The real irony is Lowe, who has commented unfavorably on how much players make these days (and who seems a bit green with envy) was also a big NHLPA influence in his time and was front centre in demanding the full salary disclosure that was the impetus for off to the races contracts and rampant salary escalation.

Its a tangled web.

[Beaker]

I attribute some of that to management thinking we can get by without a bonafide enforcer. Hemsky gets drilled and everyone skates to the bench. Rinse and repeat.

I've never understood this... pre-instigator rule, ok i got the thinking.... but now?

You can't play a true enforcer on a top line or that line is gonna suffer greatly, and what is a "true enforcer" gonna do to stop a star getting run when he's on the bench.

I've seen plenty of guys run in plenty of games over the years since that instigator rule was put in and many of those guys had enforcers on the bench.

Mitchell drilled Toews this year and he wasn't scared of no Ben Eager.


Really I honestly think Hemsky bailed on the season when it was clearly going south.

Hes a pos.

Really? What proof of this do you have?

If your star player bails on the season after 20 games don't you think it would be a major story?

Did Hemsky bail on the czech olympic team too?

I mean this would be a major story if true... I don't think this question is fair.

Question his leadership sure... but if he wasn't fucked up, don't you think the team doctors would have said something, and the team management would be pretty pissed?

[Replacement]

I've never understood this... pre-instigator rule, ok i got the thinking.... but now?

You can't play a true enforcer on a top line or that line is gonna suffer greatly, and what is a "true enforcer" gonna do to stop a star getting run when he's on the bench.

I've seen plenty of guys run in plenty of games over the years since that instigator rule was put in and many of those guys had enforcers on the bench.

Mitchell drilled Toews this year and he wasn't scared of no Ben Eager.




Really? What proof of this do you have?

If your star player bails on the season after 20 games don't you think it would be a major story?

Did Hemsky bail on the czech olympic team too?

I mean this would be a major story if true... I don't think this question is fair.

Question his leadership sure... but if he wasn't fucked up, don't you think the team doctors would have said something, and the team management would be pretty pissed?

Hemsky was already playing hurt with a nagging shoulder injury he incurred in the 6th game of the season afairc.

On the play in question that knocked him out for the season, a headfirst play into the boards that has occurred probably 25X in his career(25 too many) hemsky is seen before the play evaluating whether he should beat his man to the puck. Knowing there was heat.

He does. Because it was so important for an already injured player to "win" that puck battle.

Bailed wouldn't be the correct term but I wonder if Hemsky though enough of the season to even try to keep himself healthy.

[Giant Moo]

And one of them is an NHL player and one isn't.

Your point?

Showing up to play every night doesn't necessarily a good player make.

[Giant Moo]

I think something like that must have happened.

But yeah its reactive and I'll stop.

Its just that when you watched years of great players with a pretty great attitude its hard to see someone like Hemsky that has accomplished diddly squat do and say the things he does.

I'm just used to some players with stellar attitudes and dedication. Doug Weight over Hemsky and day of the week. Its sad post cap that this is a worse club than it was precap.

No question that Hemsky needs to get his ass into gear and I also agree with Weight over Hemsky, but that's a philosophical debate that really isn't something you can resolve one way or another.

I still think Hemsky can find his next level but he'll need something to push him there if he's going to make it. That's why I think you give him the "C" and challenge him to carry the team on his back. I see that as a no-lose situation.

[Giant Moo]

When your roster is filled with pimply teens it's hard to do anything well.

I sound like hottoddy now.

"Phoenix is a sustainable market if they win Cups for 10 years straight"

HotToddy's style? More like the epic fail that is "Watch the crowds come back to Phoenix if they have a winning team".

I think I saw some tumbleweeds going through their stands last time they were on TV.

But they've seen their revenues grow 6% over 10 years so they are just fine.

[theoil]

I still think Hemsky can find his next level but he'll need something to push him there if he's going to make it. That's why I think you give him the "C" and challenge him to carry the team on his back. I see that as a no-lose situation.

About two or three years too late imo but it should still be tried.

[Giant Moo]

About two or three years too late imo but it should still be tried.

I think there's still time to turn things around if you make an event out of the public hanging of Horcoff, Moreau and Staios. Offer Hemsky the C, Gagner/Cogliano/Penner/Smid the As. Then ask those 5 guys... what kind of a team is this going to be? What are you going to do? What's the example you want to show? Anyone who's not in 100% for the long road ahead, you say spank you very much and good luck on your next team.

Do it all well before the trade deadline.

It's not a silver bullet. But it's a start.

[I am the Liquor]

I've never understood this... pre-instigator rule, ok i got the thinking.... but now?

You can't play a true enforcer on a top line or that line is gonna suffer greatly, and what is a "true enforcer" gonna do to stop a star getting run when he's on the bench.

I've seen plenty of guys run in plenty of games over the years since that instigator rule was put in and many of those guys had enforcers on the bench.

Mitchell drilled Toews this year and he wasn't scared of no Ben Eager.


Hemsky's style plays a major part in his propensity to get injured, and an enforcer is not going to stop the opposition from taking runs at your players, but they can make a difference imo.

As most Oiler fans can tell you, the number of times that Hemsky has ended up in a crumpled heap, with nary an objection from any teammates is like counting the stars in the sky. It happens all the time. Other teams know this, as it seems to happen alot within our own division. Players like Boogaard, Regher etc. feast off of running Hemsky and there is never any retribution, never any runs taken at their star players. It is a problem and just another example of management's incompetence.

They figured after the new cba and with the subsequent rule changes/penalty crackdown that small, skilled players were the way to go. They then proceeded to ship out players like Torres, Greene, Laraque, in exchange for players like Visnovsky, Brule, O'Sullivan. We are now as soft as we have ever been and it shows.

[I am the Liquor]

Showing up to play every night doesn't necessarily a good player make.

Its a good starting point. Without it you get.............well most of our current roster. There is no decent argument to be made in regards to how moving Smyth was a positive direction for this team. The record speaks for itself.

[Raoul Duke]

I don't know how people still attribute this to Ryan Smyth, like if he stayed we'd be in some great position. If anything we'd have more money locked up in a guy that's in the twilight of his career. The team was free falling downwards with or without him.

[theoil]

I think there's still time to turn things around if you make an event out of the public hanging of Horcoff, Moreau and Staios. Offer Hemsky the C, Gagner/Cogliano/Penner/Smid the As. Then ask those 5 guys... what kind of a team is this going to be? What are you going to do? What's the example you want to show? Anyone who's not in 100% for the long road ahead, you say spank you very much and good luck on your next team.

Do it all well before the trade deadline.

It's not a silver bullet. But it's a start.

Agreed except for Cogs. I'm afraid he is gone.

[Beaker]

Hemsky was already playing hurt with a nagging shoulder injury he incurred in the 6th game of the season afairc.

On the play in question that knocked him out for the season, a headfirst play into the boards that has occurred probably 25X in his career(25 too many) hemsky is seen before the play evaluating whether he should beat his man to the puck. Knowing there was heat.

He does. Because it was so important for an already injured player to "win" that puck battle.

Bailed wouldn't be the correct term but I wonder if Hemsky though enough of the season to even try to keep himself healthy.

If you aren't going 100%; you don't deserve to be out there. If Hemsky starts letting up on plays... starts hearing footsteps... stops going hard into corners after the puck etc... he becomes a shadow of the player you want on the ice.

[I am the Liquor]

I don't know how people still attribute this to Ryan Smyth, like if he stayed we'd be in some great position. If anything we'd have more money locked up in a guy that's in the twilight of his career. The team was free falling downwards with or without him.

The freefall started after he left, not before. Maybe if he signed a big deal there would have been less money for Horcoff? We certainly would have kept some draft picks and not had to suffer through Nilsson. It would have been nice to keep a good player for once instead of sending him to America as per usual.

[Giant Moo]

Its a good starting point. Without it you get.............well most of our current roster. There is no decent argument to be made in regards to how moving Smyth was a positive direction for this team. The record speaks for itself.

I think it's a bit of revisionist history to say that Smyth never took a night off, but it doesn't matter if he never really got us any consistent amount of success despite being on the top line for years.

Pining for Smyth is the kind of attitude we exactly don't need to have as fans right now.

[Giant Moo]

Agreed except for Cogs. I'm afraid he is gone.

He's got a speed that few in the NHL possess and he's barely older than Gagner. It's just the kind of challenge he needs to take him to the next step.

[Beaker]

Hemsky's style plays a major part in his propensity to get injured, and an enforcer is not going to stop the opposition from taking runs at your players, but they can make a difference imo.

As most Oiler fans can tell you, the number of times that Hemsky has ended up in a crumpled heap, with nary an objection from any teammates is like counting the stars in the sky. It happens all the time. Other teams know this, as it seems to happen alot within our own division. Players like Boogaard, Regher etc. feast off of running Hemsky and there is never any retribution, never any runs taken at their star players. It is a problem and just another example of management's incompetence.

They figured after the new cba and with the subsequent rule changes/penalty crackdown that small, skilled players were the way to go. They then proceeded to ship out players like Torres, Greene, Laraque, in exchange for players like Visnovsky, Brule, O'Sullivan. We are now as soft as we have ever been and it shows.

Thats more what I like to call "team toughness" than having a "true enforcer"
who plays 5minutes a night on your fourth line.

Every team needs guys who can actually play the game, who are willing to fight 2-3 times a year when its necessary... guys who have some grit and some balls etc.

Guys like the Torres and Greene you mention. Souray always was a guy like that in Montreal... involved in the scrums... showing that he wouldn't allow his teammates to be pushed around.

But its a team wide mentality.

From a guy who watched Georges Laraque for a year and a half... seriously he didn't make the habs a tougher team without him. He wouldn't fight anyone without a faxed invitation in advance, and really didn't protect anyone. Now that we see the whole team involved in shit, and its honestly a better way to do things.

[theoil]

I feel like I am in some kind of time warp. Smyth was not the answer and I don't care how what the question was. An excellent complementary player who wanted to be paid like a top dog. And Horcoff's salary is a disaster.

[theoil]

From a guy who watched Georges Laraque for a year and a half... seriously he didn't make the habs a tougher team without him. He wouldn't fight anyone without a faxed invitation in advance, and really didn't protect anyone. Now that we see the whole team involved in shit, and its honestly a better way to do things.

Lucky. I had to watch that asshole for about 7 years.

[I am the Liquor]

I think it's a bit of revisionist history to say that Smyth never took a night off, but it doesn't matter if he never really got us any consistent amount of success despite being on the top line for years.

Pining for Smyth is the kind of attitude we exactly don't need to have as fans right now.

I dont think anyone is pining for Smyth in particular. That ship has sailed. We are pining for players that battle like he did. Smyth brought a consistent effort to the rink. I dont think you can say the same for Hemsky.

Curious, what attitude do we need to have right now? Should we be emailing Tamblowe and saying "Thank you sir may I have another"?

[I am the Liquor]

Thats more what I like to call "team toughness"

We dont have that either. This has been team pussy for about three or four years now.

[Beaker]

We dont have that either. This has been team pussy for about three or four years now.

I realize that... I'm just saying... 1 player, 1 enforcer... it doesn't solve this problem.

Having a Laraque, or an Eager, or a Colton Orr, or whoever on your bench wouldn't stop other teams from running Hemsky.

This needs to be a change that affects at least 6 or 7 guys through the lineup; if not more.

[I am the Liquor]

I realize that... I'm just saying... 1 player, 1 enforcer... it doesn't solve this problem.

Having a Laraque, or an Eager, or a Colton Orr, or whoever on your bench wouldn't stop other teams from running Hemsky.

This needs to be a change that affects at least 6 or 7 guys through the lineup; if not more.

I totally agree. I would think the Canadiens are going down a similar road adding all the small fries this year. Would that be accurate?

[Giant Moo]

I dont think anyone is pining for Smyth in particular. That ship has sailed. We are pining for players that battle like he did. Smyth brought a consistent effort to the rink. I dont think you can say the same for Hemsky.

Curious, what attitude do we need to have right now? Should we be emailing Tamblowe and saying "Thank you sir may I have another"?

We should be expecting and demanding an organizational enema, or more specifically, a management and player enema. What Katz does with the Oilers in the off season will have serious implications for years to come, and will let us know if he's going to treat the club seriously and like a business (that means that accountability is not just an Ethan Moron cliche to drop into every interview), or if he's going to treat it like his personal playhouse.

In any other industry, a company which has every single department gradually fall to become the worst in their respective fields would find the top management all hanging by the gallows by the next shareholders meeting. That level of incompetence is simply unacceptable on any level. And who's at the head of hockey operations, basically, the man responsible for the performance of all 4 levels of hockey in this organization?

[Replacement]

If you aren't going 100%; you don't deserve to be out there. If Hemsky starts letting up on plays... starts hearing footsteps... stops going hard into corners after the puck etc... he becomes a shadow of the player you want on the ice.

This is bs and the kind of oft repeated nonsense that makes us all sick of bored..Its not the only way to play the game, particularly for a Euro skilled player.

It doesn't need to be Hemskys game to be first in the corner digging for the puck. Its not even his strongsuit.

He could help this team a lot more rushing the puck, controlling the puck, playing the halfboards.

Its not his job to be digging in the corners in the way he does and putting his head on a platter.

Thats just looking to get injured and DOESN'T help the team.

I think the shadow of Hemsky might look better than one that hasn't been seen for the year.

That seems logical.

[Beaker]

I totally agree. I would think the Canadiens are going down a similar road adding all the small fries this year. Would that be accurate?

They still have Moen, O'Byrne, Gill, Mara, Lapierre, and a few others who bring enough of that... Ryan White on the way very soon from Hamilton... Darche already up from the dogs. Pacioretty and a few others. And Gionta as small as he is, is fiesty as hell. The guy has quite the battles with Chara.

They aren't the 70s Flyers, but I don't think they are any less tough than they were in 2008 when they won the conference.

Now we've had a ton of injuries this year, but I don't think thats cause of players getting run or anything due to lack of toughness...

Markov got cut by Price. Cammalleri fell awkwardly after a clean hit... Kostitsyn was a clean hit too. .. Gionta broke his foot blocking a shot. These are the long term things.

So its
1) Bad Luck
2) Compressed schedule, olympic year.
3) Jacques Martins coaching.... he rolls three lines... hasn't given the fourth line many minutes at all. We often have 2-3 forwards under 5:00 if the game is close. This wears people out.

=====================

Now heres the other thing... are we gonna go into Boston or Philly and outmuscle them? NOPE... and anytime we ever try to send that physical message we end up not playing our game and getting run out of the rink. But if we use our speed, and only respond when they start the dirty shit... we usually have a good chance to win.

That said, the west is probably a rougher conference than the east.

We talk about the three guys we added being small.... Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri... and yes they are, but who did they replace?

1) Tanguay - Soft as butter
2) Kovalev - can be chippy if he's pissed off which happens 10 games a year and in the playoffs, but can also float and be invisible out there. He'll play chippy 10 games a year. Good 40 games a year but not tough.... invisible 30 games.
3) Koivu - I love that mother fucker... small but you can't intimidate him. Gionta is similar though in these aspects.

[Beaker]

This is bs and the kind of oft repeated nonsense that makes us all sick of bored..Its not the only way to play the game, particularly for a Euro skilled player.

It doesn't need to be Hemskys game to be first in the corner digging for the puck. Its not even his strongsuit.

He could help this team a lot more rushing the puck, controlling the puck, playing the halfboards.

Its not his job to be digging in the corners in the way he does and putting his head on a platter.

Thats just looking to get injured and DOESN'T help the team.

I think the shadow of Hemsky might look better than one that hasn't been seen for the year.

That seems logical.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see a guy like Hemsky ever attempting to get injured, or purposely not protecting himself. I've always thought he played hard and was small and maybe a little injury prone, but i never would question him trying to get hurt.

But you see more oilers games than i do.

[Replacement]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see a guy like Hemsky ever attempting to get injured, or purposely not protecting himself. I've always thought he played hard and was small and maybe a little injury prone, but i never would question him trying to get hurt.

But you see more oilers games than i do.

The part that I called bs on is in Hemsky being first to the puck going into the boards being a big integral part of his game. It isn't.

Most of his head hurts happen chasing pucks behind the net. Regehr alone has done it to Hemsky half a dozen times in this exact location. Just follow Hemsky into the boards and drill him into the middle of next week. Hemsky of course NEVER ends up winning this puck battle and what defined purpose is there to the behavior? Showing you can take it? Thats an idiots game..

Hemsky should stay far away from the endboards for a player that is not very good at anticipating a hit or preparing for one.

Thing with Hemsky though is he thinks he's a tough. He ain't no Torres, a guy who can make a living in those areas. Hemsky should stick to his spots or risk a shortened career.

[Giant Moo]

Thing with Hemsky though is he thinks he's a tough. He ain't no Torres, a guy who can make a living in those areas. Hemsky should stick to his spots or risk a shortened career.

The Raffi Torres who's played about 140 of the last 210 last NHL games and put up a whopping 70 points since 2007, or a different Raffi Torres?

[Replacement]

The Raffi Torres who's played about 140 of the last 210 last NHL games and put up a whopping 70 points since 2007, or a different Raffi Torres?

The point is he can play a physical game in the corner with the best of them and come up with the puck all night.

His trouble has always been an inability to translate that to any decent kind of cycle game. If he had a hint of Sedin cycle in him he'd put up pts.

He's got 19goals though in only 13mins/night play this year. None of it on first line.

That would be damned impressive in these parts.

[Giant Moo]

The point is he can play a physical game in the corner with the best of them and come up with the puck all night.

His trouble has always been an inability to translate that to any decent kind of cycle game. If he had a hint of Sedin cycle in him he'd put up pts.

He's got 19goals though in only 13mins/night play this year. None of it on first line.

That would be damned impressive in these parts.

Impressive? Like being the tallest midget? A ham sandwich would be damned impressive when put against the sad sacks we have on the roster. I'm glad he's doing so well this year. How'd he do the last two years?

Also, something is fucked up with Finland's flag in the banner image at the top of the page.

[Raoul Duke]

I dont think anyone is pining for Smyth in particular. That ship has sailed. We are pining for players that battle like he did. Smyth brought a consistent effort to the rink. I dont think you can say the same for Hemsky.

Curious, what attitude do we need to have right now? Should we be emailing Tamblowe and saying "Thank you sir may I have another"?

Battle like he did in the Stanley Cup Finals? The free fall was going to happen with Smyth or without. You talk like the Oilers were contenders right up until he was traded and then we went down. The Oilers were going down anyway and signing Smyth to a bad contract wouldn't have helped. Might have had less money for Horcoff like you said, but one bad contract for another.

And Horcoff would have probably been here on a slightly less outrageous contract. Smyth wasn't a savior of this team, it always amazes me how people seem to have this memory of him as being a superstar worth superstar money. He's been a journey man since he left the Oilers, nobody wants his contract.

[I am the Liquor]

They still have Moen, O'Byrne, Gill, Mara, Lapierre, and a few others who bring enough of that... Ryan White on the way very soon from Hamilton... Darche already up from the dogs. Pacioretty and a few others. And Gionta as small as he is, is fiesty as hell. The guy has quite the battles with Chara.

They aren't the 70s Flyers, but I don't think they are any less tough than they were in 2008 when they won the conference.

Now we've had a ton of injuries this year, but I don't think thats cause of players getting run or anything due to lack of toughness...

Markov got cut by Price. Cammalleri fell awkwardly after a clean hit... Kostitsyn was a clean hit too. .. Gionta broke his foot blocking a shot. These are the long term things.

So its
1) Bad Luck
2) Compressed schedule, olympic year.
3) Jacques Martins coaching.... he rolls three lines... hasn't given the fourth line many minutes at all. We often have 2-3 forwards under 5:00 if the game is close. This wears people out.

=====================

Now heres the other thing... are we gonna go into Boston or Philly and outmuscle them? NOPE... and anytime we ever try to send that physical message we end up not playing our game and getting run out of the rink. But if we use our speed, and only respond when they start the dirty shit... we usually have a good chance to win.

That said, the west is probably a rougher conference than the east.

We talk about the three guys we added being small.... Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri... and yes they are, but who did they replace?

1) Tanguay - Soft as butter
2) Kovalev - can be chippy if he's pissed off which happens 10 games a year and in the playoffs, but can also float and be invisible out there. He'll play chippy 10 games a year. Good 40 games a year but not tough.... invisible 30 games.
3) Koivu - I love that mother fucker... small but you can't intimidate him. Gionta is similar though in these aspects.

You also lost Komisarek, Laraque and the tenderness. When I look around the league for a team that are small and weak like us I think of the Habs. It never used to be like that back when you were winning cups. Maybe there is a correlation there?

[I am the Liquor]

Battle like he did in the Stanley Cup Finals? The free fall was going to happen with Smyth or without. You talk like the Oilers were contenders right up until he was traded and then we went down. The Oilers were going down anyway and signing Smyth to a bad contract wouldn't have helped. Might have had less money for Horcoff like you said, but one bad contract for another.

And Horcoff would have probably been here on a slightly less outrageous contract. Smyth wasn't a savior of this team, it always amazes me how people seem to have this memory of him as being a superstar worth superstar money. He's been a journey man since he left the Oilers, nobody wants his contract.

I never said he was a superstar or that he carried the team. We miss what he brings. It was never replaced. Much like Stoll, Greene and Torres. Smyth brought an intangible that none of our present players have. And thats a problem. As for our record, it speaks for itself. Losing Smyth hurt this team. There is little doubt of that. Just look around.

[Raoul Duke]

I don't think losing Smyth hurt anyone, the team was going to be shit no matter what. The Oil do need some grit but I'd rather it from a 1.5 million player than Ryan Smyth and his enormous cap hit.

It's just convenient that Smyth left at the time the team was going down. The record doesn't speak to the team with or without him because if he really made a 30 point difference in standings for teams he wouldn't be bouncing around the NHL.

[Replacement]

I don't think losing Smyth hurt anyone, the team was going to be shit no matter what. The Oil do need some grit but I'd rather it from a 1.5 million player than Ryan Smyth and his enormous cap hit.

It's just convenient that Smyth left at the time the team was going down. The record doesn't speak to the team with or without him because if he really made a 30 point difference in standings for teams he wouldn't be bouncing around the NHL.This is a bit distorted. Its your take that he's bouncing around. Another could be that competitive clubs like LA, that are clearly playoff bound and considering options for win now mode never hesitated to pencil in Smyth and at his hefty contract price.

Anybody in LA including Kopitar is effusive in their praise of what Smyth has brought to that club.

You make it sound like Smyth is struggling to find a piece of bread somewhere..

btw I don't discount for a second that Smyth saw the writing on the wall. I'm sure he did. I'm sure he was absolutely fed up with this org.

But hands up here who could honestly blame him?

Note I feel differently re: Hemsky as he didn't suffer this team for 12plus years before sounding off plus he got a pretty reasonable stay happy contract at a very young age.

The Horc, Hemsky, Staios, Moreau, Gilbert, Penner, Nilsson, contracts were basically feelgood contracts to try to build player satisfaction here and a rep that the Oilers are good to players. i.e. won't you please tell your nhlpa fiends to come here and our money doesn't smell...,But an illusion all but destroyed with the critical Smyth contractual gongshow.

[Beaker]

You also lost Komisarek, Laraque and the tenderness. When I look around the league for a team that are small and weak like us I think of the Habs. It never used to be like that back when you were winning cups. Maybe there is a correlation there?

On defence Komisarek out... Dandenault out... Bouillion out.
Spacek, Gill, Mara, in... O'Byrne much bigger role.

Overall as a group... toughness didn't change much.

Laraque, like i said... did nothing for us in 1.5 years... total waste of space.

Tenderness? Wasn't really tough, was big but wasn't tough... Pouliot is actually been much more willing to battle in the corners and the front of the net.

As for not winning cups... the league is a lot different than it was in the 70s, and we've made some big mistakes... and the team could stand to be tougher, i agree with that... some more team toughness, another gritty power forward would help. But I don't think its as bad as some make it out to be.